Tooling probleme

[sivtek]

Hi.
I have at last after a lot of trying and failure managed to get my MK3 mill working with a new PC (W 10) and a SmootStepper.
Had a lot of trying with the ref-all settings.
The only problem now??? is the "Set TP TLO" in the tooling page, it wont work. When prest I get the message: "Max Z Dist.= or les MinProbeDistance. OP Canceled".
In the Setting page I have enable the "TLO G-Blk is TP". Max Dist 20 and the Gauge/Plate Height 0.78.
When touching the mill with the Plate, the green light in the Set TLO box in the Tooling page light up.
Pleece help. What to do?

sivtek

[DaveCVI]

Please go to the WC offset tab, probing page and look at the "max Z Distance" DRO. Is the value Zero or very small? IF so, set it to a larger value.
Dave

[sivtek]

Thanks Dave.
That solved that problem, but a new one erupted!
Pressing the "Set TP TLO" in the tooling page give me the message: Can`t set TLO for#0 ATLO skipped". I have tried to enter a new tool using the MDI input. (T2M6 for a # 2 Tool) Nothing happening. I can use the MDI input to move the axis.
Also the "REF ALL" is very unstable, sometimes it works other times not. The operation is not very reliable I think.

sivtek

[DaveCVI]

Thanks Dave.
That solved that problem, but a new one erupted!
Pressing the "Set TP TLO" in the tooling page give me the message: Can`t set TLO for#0 ATLO skipped".

Tool #0 is what mach uses to know that there is no tool in the spindle. You can''t measure the TLO for a tool that does not physically exist and then try to put the TLO value into the tool table that has no entry for Tool 0 in the table.

I have tried to enter a new tool using the MDI input. (T2M6 for a # 2 Tool) Nothing happening. I can use the MDI input to move the axis.
sivtek

If tool change command are being ignored. that is usually because mach was configured to ignore tool changes.
Use the mach menus to go to config / general config then look for the tool change settings block near the upper left of the mach config dialog.
If it is set to "ignore Tool Change", change it to "stop spindle, wait for cycle start".

Also the "REF ALL" is very unstable, sometimes it works other times not. The operation is not very reliable I think.
sivtek

I don't know how your machine is set up, what type of switches you are using or whether you have noise issues on home switch signals. Those are all things that are possible mechanical or electrical problems. You have to be able to reliably reference each axis individually before you can expect multi-axis reference to work well.
Go to the run page. There are separate "ref" buttons for each axis. Debug the system by trying each axis individually.

[sivtek]

Thanks again Dave.
The "Set TP TLO" now works fine!

Maybe you can give me some hints on referencing the axis? In my old system (Windows XP and no SmootStepper) the system did work OK.
My mill is a SIG KX3 mill. BOB is C11G - multifunction board and SS is V1.2 with USB connector. In the SS I have adapt 1kHz as Controller Frequency and the MaxStep Frequency to 32 kHz on all axes. Also in Mach 3, General configuration Dialog I have tried Debounce Interval 200/1000/10000.
Sometimes the table go to the switch and stay there, other times it go to the switch then back of and continue to do so, will not stop backing off. ?

Can it be a SS issue?

Thanks
sivtek

[DaveCVI]

Thanks again Dave.
The "Set TP TLO" now works fine!

Good.

Maybe you can give me some hints on referencing the axis? In my old system (Windows XP and no SmootStepper) the system did work OK.
My mill is a SIG KX3 mill. BOB is C11G - multifunction board and SS is V1.2 with USB connector. In the SS I have adapt 1kHz as Controller Frequency and the MaxStep Frequency to 32 kHz on all axes. Also in Mach 3, General configuration Dialog I have tried Debounce Interval 200/1000/10000.
Sometimes the table go to the switch and stay there, other times it go to the switch then back of and continue to do so, will not stop backing off. ?

Can it be a SS issue?

It could be an issue that started when you changed to the smooth stepper. However, that does not means the problem is with the smooth stepper itself. Rather, I would suspect that this is a system problem that the change to the smooth stepper makes more visible.

I'm not sure what you used before the smooth stepper, but I'll assume it was a parallel port.

My guess would be that you are experiencing an electrical noise problem. Electrical noise on the input lines from the home switches can make the system act as if the home switch is triggered before switch is physically activated. It can also make the electrical edge of the input signal when the switch is triggered (and un-triggered as it backs off) be missed by the system. Noise often shows up as unstable operation of input signals. Homing is a typical area where a problem is seen because to home you have to be running the motors - and running the motors causes electrical noise. An input signal may look fine with no motors running but fail when motors are running. If you are using a VFD on the spindle, they can cause lots of noise also.

Why can this happen with the smooth stepper? A common reason is that the smooth stepper is a USB device. The use of the USB cable interconnects the PC ground to the smooth stepper - this can cause a difference in the ground configuration of the control system when compared to the configuration of a parallel port system. What is needed is a scope and some time looking at the input signals for the home switches. You want nice clean sharp transitions when the switches activate/deactivate. I would also mention that noise immunity this is a reason that the ethernet smooth stepper is preferred by some over the usb smoothstepper.

You will never get perfect signals because (particularly mechanical) switches "bounce" some when making contact which results in several short high/low pulses at the input pin. It is best to electrically filter this to remove the bounces on the input signal. If you can't do that, mach provides the "software debounce" feature to help. What that does is make mach see a steady input signal for a period of time before the input signal is recognized as being active. The period of time is what you are setting when you set the bebounce interval value in mach's config. Each unit of debounce is typically 40 micro-seconds. If you use a lot of debounce, the axis motion continues until mach sees a steady input state for the entire debounce time period. From the debounce interval length and the axis speed you are using to home the axis, you can calculate the amount of overrun that the axis will travel before the home switch input is seen by mach as being active. A fast home speed and a long debounce time can result in physical damage from traveling past the home and/or limit switches. This is why fixing electrical noise is better than using software to ignore the noise via software debounce.

This type of issue is usually an electrical problem. You'll need to debug the electrical signals to sort it out. Other than that mach's debounce ability, there is not much that can be done in software to "fix" this.

Dave

[sivtek]

Thanks Andy

Now I know a lot more of the problem and it is difficult and complex. I have a friend I hope will help me, he is more knowledgeable with the electric than me. Will start looking for el. noice .

BTW, how do you go about "electrically filter this to remove bounces on the input signal"? Sheltered cables --?

Will let you know how I am getting on.

sivtek

[sivtek]

Hi Dave.
Sorry I called you Andy last time!

I think I have found a solution to my problems.In the Mach gen.config. I put 200 in the debounce box. And then, in SS config. page I put 1 in all "Noise filtering of inputs" boxes.

All works fine now, hope it will last!

Thanks for all your support Dave and I can say as some else here in the forum said, you are the best!

sivtek

[DaveCVI]

Thanks for the kind words. I'm happy to know you have the problem fixed!
Dave