RPM not shown

[sivtek]

Hi Dave

I hope you can help me.
I have made a high speed spindle (HSSP) with a opto switch to read the RPM. The HSSP fits in the spindle of my mill so the mill spindle shall not rewolve when the HSSP is used. This causes a problem sinse the mil spindle have to be turnd on for Mach 3 can read the RPM. (I did not know this before I read your answere to Osker in the Machsupport Forum sept 19, 2010 "How to Enable RPM in MachStd Mill").
To overcome this problem, in Engine Config....Ports & Pins/Motor Outputs I unable spindle. Then when in Mach3, I press the "Spindle CW F5" the button lights, the mill spindle do not move and I can read the RPM of my HSSP motor. All fine, but...........

In the MashStd Mill Run page, witch I prefer to use, I press the CW button it do not light and the RPM of the HSSP motor is not displased. The "Dwell" go green for a short time. (With the spindle abled in the cofig. page the mill spindle runs and the RPM can be read. I have one opto switch for the mill and one for the HSSP motor). What to do?

Thanks
Johannes

[DaveCVI]

Hi,
Sorry for the delay in responding to this post - I think I missed it mixed in with the recent spam posts that have been hitting the forum. (I hate spammers - I keep wishing there was some technology that would magically cause a spammers PC to explode and melt into a puddle of plastic.)

Hi Dave

I hope you can help me.
I have made a high speed spindle (HSSP) with a opto switch to read the RPM. The HSSP fits in the spindle of my mill so the mill spindle shall not rewolve when the HSSP is used. This causes a problem sinse the mil spindle have to be turnd on for Mach 3 can read the RPM. (I did not know this before I read your answere to Osker in the Machsupport Forum sept 19, 2010 "How to Enable RPM in MachStd Mill").
To overcome this problem, in Engine Config....Ports & Pins/Motor Outputs I unable spindle. Then when in Mach3, I press the "Spindle CW F5" the button lights, the mill spindle do not move and I can read the RPM of my HSSP motor. All fine, but...........

From my way of thinking that is a bit odd...
1) you have disabled the spindle. OK. To me that means it should be impossible to "start" or use the spindle.
2) then you use a button to start the (now disabled) spindle... and internally, mach "starts" the disabled spindle enough to at least be able to read the RPM input.
I find that all a bit illogical, but let's just accept that this is the way mach seems to be working and see if we can find a solution that will solve your problem.

In the MashStd Mill Run page, witch I prefer to use, I press the CW button it do not light and the RPM of the HSSP motor is not displased.

OK, I have a suspicion of what is happening internal to Mach.
The 1024 screen set uses OEM button 110 to start the spindle in the CW direction.
MSM's CW button issues the M3 gcode command to mach. This was done because I was told that this was "safer" and avoided some internal mach bugs.

I'm thinking that the M3 gcode is actually doing what I think should (from a purely technical viewpoint) happen - I.e. the disabled spindle CW gocde is getting ignored because the spindle is disabled, mach is doing nothing with the M3, and thus the spindle does NOT go ON, and mach does not read the RPM input.

In the 1024 screen set, the CW button calls OEM Button 110. This OEM button interface is probably (technically), broken in that it is doing something with the disabled spindle that is enabling the RPM to get read... but in your case you want this "broken" action to let you read the spindle RPM.

Here is a test to confirm my guess:
Using the 1024 mach screen set, use the MDI line to do a "M3"....
what happens?
Do you get the MSM behavior (this what I think will happen) or do you get the 1024 behavior re mach reading the RPM input?

The "Dwell" go green for a short time. (With the spindle abled in the cofig. page the mill spindle runs and the RPM can be read.

The green dwell is probably because there is a CW spin up delay set up (see ports & pins, spindle tab).
I would expect this delay to be processed when ever the spindle is started.

I have one opto switch for the mill and one for the HSSP motor). What to do?

Thanks
Johannes

Assuming the test above confirms my guess, it sounds like what you want to do is change the MSM CW button from "M3" to "OEM button 110". Fortunately, this is not too hard to do.

You could just edit the MachStdMIll.set file and change the button action. However that will only last until you reload MSM, or install an MSM update. If we use that approach, the next time you install an MSM update, MSM will overwrite your change and you will be wondering what happened.

The best way to do this is to make a customized version of MSM. The instructions for doing that are in section 15 of the MSM mill manual. Please read thru at least section 15.5 and 15.6 (FYI, the CW button you want to change is a "direct button code" button).

While doing this, I'd also take a moment to check the CCW button - I'd guess that it acts like the CW button. While you are making a custom set file, you probably want to change the CCW while you are thinking about it.

If you get stuck doing the customization let me know and I can help some more.

Dave

[sivtek]

Hi
Thanks for the post,- agree with the "puddle of plastic"!

I do not know if I have managet to explain me shelf good enogh.
My HSSP is selfcontained with its own high speed motor and it fits into the spindle of my mill so when I want to use the HSSP, my mill spindle have to be disabled. (Not running). I disable the spindle in the cofig.. page.
The problem is when disabled I can not read the RPM of my HSSP.
Using Mash3 screan and press "Spindle CW F5" the system? think the spindle is running (but is not) and I can read the RPM of my HSSP.
Using the Mach Std Mill in the Run page, pressing "CV" (and the CCW) button the system think the spindle is NOT running (wich is correct) and the RPM of the HSSP do not register (do not show).

Hope this make sence.

Johannes

[DaveCVI]

Hi,
I think I understand the situation you have described.

What happened when you do did the test of M3 from the MDI line in MSM?
Did it act like mach 1024 or the same as the MSM CW button?

Dave

[sivtek]

Hi
In the test, spindle abeled, I do M3 in the MDI line the CW button lights and the spindle start running.
In the test, spindle disabeled, I do M3 in the MDI line the CW button do not lights and the spindle do not runn.
This is done in the MSM screen.
(BTW I have gone throug the prosses you advised in the Machsupport Forum sept 19, 2010 if it has anything to say).
(In the Mach3 screen I load the Sieg KX3500 profil - I think. Not so clever with PC and data).

Johannes

[DaveCVI]

Johannes,
Here are two customized MSM screen sets - one is 10x7 and the other is 12x9.

Both of these use OEM calls for CW and CCW (like 1024 does) instead of doing M3 & M4.
This should give the same behavior for your high speed spindle that 1024 does wrt to reading the RPM for a disabled spindle.

Put these into C:\Mach3\MachStdMill\Set Files\Custom

Then start MSM, go to the setting page, then use the "load screen" button to pick the one of these you want to use.
When you load the screen set, you will have to go up from C:\Mach3\MachStdMill\Set Files\Masters to C:\Mach3\MachStdMill\Set Files\Custom.

Dave

[sivtek]

Hi

I tryed it, but it did not work
When I did a load screen (from "Custom") and hit a boutton (lod, run, any boutton) I got the message:

Error,#Expand File not found at:
C:\Mach3\ScreenSetMacros\MSM SpindleAsOEMCalls12x9set\Masters\Script\All-ToolingPage.m1s

I tryed to open the screen both from the "Custom" and from the "Master", but got simuluar error as abowe.

Should I reinstall MSM?

Johannes

[DaveCVI]

Hi,
Don't reinstall MSM - as that is not the problem in this instance.

I'm betting that when you tried to load the set files I posted, that you tried to do that by using the mach menus. I.e. that you tried to do mach menu, view, load screens and then pointed to the set files.
Is my guess correct?

I am going to assume that my guess is correct and tell you how to fix that.
Rule 1: For MSM mill the ONLY file that should ever be loaded by the mach menu view, load screens is c:\mach3\MachStdMIll.set

Rule 2: All variations of MSM Screens are loaded from INSIDE MSM, not via the mach menu.

If you attempt to use the mach menus to load any other MSM set file, you will get exactly the problem you described re expand file not found.

Please do this:
1) Go back to the mach menus, use view load screen and reload c:\mach3\MachStdMill.set
(this will get you back a working MSM installation (the buttons etc will now work again).

2) Go to the MSM settings page, and look in the upper left area and you will see a button called "Load Screen", use this button to load one of the set files I posted. This will correctly load the customized MSM set file and things should then be fine once again.

Dave

[sivtek]

Hi,
Yes, you are absulutly correct. I get up the screens now, but it still do not work.
One thing I noticed when opening the set files from "Custom" the screens seems to be identical, not so when I open the screens from "Masters".

Johannes

[DaveCVI]

hi,
the custom set files will not look visually different because they do not have any visual changes.
I only changed the code that the CW and CCW buttons run.

Does the custom set act the same as the 1024 screen set does for your high speed spindle and reading RPM?

Dave