Master Tool Mode + Probe + ATLO Toolsetter

[danielbriggs]

Hi Dave,
I've got a little confused on a TLO setup, and was wondering if you could help.

- I've used a probe, calibrated from a ring gauge and minimal runout (works great on it's own).
- I've used manual TLO's by setting TLO's at a common part Z0 and manually entering the TLO's into the tool table (works great on it's own).
- I've just installed a "springy" / travelling tool setter. The trigger point is very repeatable. TC position set and it seems to work ok (Again works great on its own).
The issue comes when I try to combine all 3

(Note to self... don't have MachineCoordinates mode enabled when doing Z0 TC ATLO calibration! The machine lists lazily in all 3 axis rather than just Z when looking for the trigger point!)

For the tool library:
1-98 = usable tools
99 = Probe
100 = Master tool

The probe is connected to the appropriate probe input signal.
The tool setter is connected to the "Timing" signal, as per your manual. Both manually trigger well from a finger poke.

I don't want to use a touch plate / fixed setter. I'd like to use the pictured one I have below to clear any swarf off.

I understand measuring the probe TLO in the tool setter is a bad idea (i.e. two springs fighting each other to give a random trigger point / or at least a point different than a rigid tool). I think this is the source of my errors. Using the probe tool = master tool, and measuring the probe offset on the tool setter gives results that are off at Z0 when going back to rigid cutters. So I don't use Probe = Master Tool.

SO... I tried using master tool mode:
i.e. tell MSM master is T100. Enable master tool mode, Measure tool for T100.
The offset is expectedly 0.
Now I jogged to some fixed aluminium and took a flat cut. And Z0'd at this height.
The master tool, (T100) goes back in the drawer and isn't used for day to day cutting.

I then swapped to the probe tool (T99) and G49'd. Then manually jogged the probe until it triggered the DRO, and noted the Z value. Entered this in the TLO for T99 (probe) i.e. to compensate for any Z trigger movement on the probe on a know level surface.


Then when I use Auto TLO's for everything else, it measures and sets rigid tools correctly with good repeatability.
I can put the probe in and use it to find X+Y edges. HOWEVER it will not let me find any Z surfaces with my probe mounted.
It complains the master tool is not inserted (MT Mode Probe Op _MT not mounted).
This is never going to be the case; as I've only used the master tool (100) to set the tool relationships, and only want to use the probe (99) to set the Z0's.

So... how do I use the probe tool to measure Z0's on workpieces when I have a master tool defined which is not the probe


Bonus question:
How does the Renishaw probe + tool setter overcome this two spring problem of the probe measuring it's TLO from the setter?
I essentially have a poor man's version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUY2c39jykM

All the best,
Dan

[DaveCVI]

Hi,

So... how do I use the probe tool to measure Z0's on workpieces when I have a master tool defined which is not the probe

This may not be the answer you prefer - but "you don't" is the honest answer.
Turning on master tool mode tells the software to calculate things according to the rules that make up Master tool mode. One of the requirements for MTM is to have the master tool mounted for Z setting operations. If you don't want to use the master for Z ops, then you'll need to not use MTM.

With MTM, the master is the tool that the system knows the TLO of the master is always 0. All the other tool TLOs are a delta between the Tool PTL and the master PTL. The system was designed to use the MT for setting Z when MTM is active. It also allows the Probe tool # to be the MT # - which is how you use the probe tool in MTM.
I'm afraid that you are trying to use part of one TLO scheme with part of another and that's not a combination which the software supports. It's probably not impossible, the combination is just not part of MSM.

Bonus question:
How does the Renishaw probe + tool setter overcome this two spring problem of the probe measuring it's TLO from the setter?
I essentially have a poor man's version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUY2c39jykM

At one point in the past, I considered adding this to MSM. It's been long enough now that I no longer remember off the top of my head how I would have done it. I do remember deciding that the extra complexity would probably cause additional support issues and thus decided not to add it.

Dave

[danielbriggs]

Understood - thanks; I'll see if I can get an acceptable workaround / different way of doing things in the meantime.

At one point in the past, I considered adding this to MSM. It's been long enough now that I no longer remember off the top of my head how I would have done it. I do remember deciding that the extra complexity would probably cause additional support issues and thus decided not to add it.

Well... I'm very very very interested in this, even as a paid add-on if helps sway you to dust off those old thoughts

[DaveCVI]

Well... I'm very very very interested in this, even as a paid add-on if helps sway you to dust off those old thoughts

I'll send you a direct email -
Dave