M6start unexpected error trap ???

[1hander]

i can do all the tool changes i want.... and it works perfect...no problems whatsoever

but...
1. if i mount the probe....
2. probe for Z zero
3. z zero found and moves up .100 where its set to go...
4. i type in m6t2 or any other tool and hit enter ,
5. z starts to go up then stalls..like its stuck...but its not...
6. it stays stuck/stalled until it hits theorectical soft limit then stops
7. i get the M6Start unexpected error trap message..

something else i noticed, when i was probing for Z ...if i had 40 in the dro for fast speed it would probe down maybe .100 and give z face not found even though its within the 1 inch max z distance i have set...
if i move the z up some arbitrary amount and retry the z probe with the 40 speed in the dro it will work... if i changed to 35 it would probe down and find z without moving the z any amount..

only thing i changed was adding the TLO offset maintenance script.... i deleted it and restarted everything but it didnt help...

was working great except i had not tried probing followed by a tool change like you would do when your setting up a workpiece then going to your first tool and getting started

[1hander]

something has definitely gone wrong...

i was recalibrating the probe thinking that maybe that had something to do with the problem... the diameter of the tip is .080 ... after calibrating the closest iit could get to actual diameter even after adding tip compensation...was .008 to big on the diameter... i had to erase compensation value and manually change the diameter of the stylus tip all the way down to .073 diameter then do t he calibration and use the recomended compensation and the diameter was right on the money at .4915 exactly...

or maybe this is cuz of the flex in the stylus shaft...

after all this, i tried another tool change after setting z zero and it keeps stalling..only when i try a toolchange immediately after setting z zero,,

[1hander]

i seemed to remember having similar symptoms before and i got it sorted but for whatever reason the settings that were working with mach3 alone are a bit off now...

the problem was i needed to readjust the backlash speed...the shuttle wheel accel and i retuned the motors abit ..all three kinda go together i guess

1. first i turned the backlash speed down to 50% from 100%.... the 100 was working fine up till now ...but no biggee ..easy fix
2. next i lowered the accel to 8 on all three axis and left the speed at 75' ipm
3. then i adjusted the shuttle wheel accel by ear... by holding the x as long as i could and while holding that key down hit the y axis back and forth for short bursts so i can hear the backlash being taken out ... i kept speeding up shuttle wheel accel until i got a smooth take up of the back lash instead of what was two distinct motor sounds...
i ended up at .025

once it was running smoothly during backlash takeup... i redid the z probing at 40 fast setting and voila ..perfect every time on every speed setting...

next i tried a tool change from the z set i previously did and again perfection... it zipped up and over to the tool change position... every single time..

i checked the zero offsets for all the tools that i set with the moving tool setter...and they are all .0007 from being perfectly on z zero.... im so impressed i cant get the smile off my face... they are off because i have not accurately measured and entered the ptl of the touch probe. once i get that done itll be dead on..

again...Dave...awesome platform

thank you thank you thank you

the last thing im wondering is if the above settings were causing a problem with the probe calibration...my debounce is 200...

[DaveCVI]

Hi,
Other than delaying the point in space where the probe triggers (causing a bit more overrun) debounce will only make a difference if there is noise on the probe input line. If there is no noise pulse, there is nothing for the debouce to filter out.

Re backlash... It probably won't surprise you to hear me say "backlash bad"
If you are using mach to compensate for backlash, you would be much better off to eliminate the backlash mechanically.
I am skeptical of the ability of software to compensate for mechanical backlash. Doing that theoretically requires the ability to have infinite acceleration of the axis - which we know is impossible. I have also never experimented with the corner cases of back lash being close to the probe back off settings etc...

Dave

[1hander]

well when i say backlash ... i mean .0006 in the x and ,0007 in the y axis... im not sure if thats even worrying about... and if i should just deactivate the backlash comp with those numbers... and i think its cause im running the gibs just a hair too tight..i will clean the ways and recheck the gibs maybe try a little looser.

another question... when i have a file running and it comes to the tool change... is it supposed to go straight to the tool change position and wait ....

or is it supposed to do as it does now which is

1. it goes up to what im assuming is safe z and stops spindle..
2, i hit start
3. then it goes to tool change position..
4 i change tool then hit start again
5. it goes back to work

im just wondering if theres a setting for it to go to TC position without me hitting start the first time...

[DaveCVI]

that is not the sequence that should be happening...

1) if you have Mach's "safe Z" turned on, please turn it off. That "feature" of mach is full of bugs.

What I always see is:
2) mach tool change mode set to "stop & wait" in general config.
(some mach verfsion default to ignore tool change so check the setting)

3) check that the "TC Auto TCP" button in turned on on the tooling page to get the movement to the TCP

4) I do T1M6 and I see:
a) MSM changes to tooling page
b) cycle start button is greyed out (disabled)
c) spindle moves to TCP
d) when it gets to the TCP, the cycle start button turns green (enabled)
e) operator changes tool in spindle
f) operator hits cycle start button
g) MSM returns to the page it was on before the M6
h) gcode program continues

Dave

[1hander]

you were right
i disabled safe and it goes correctly...
i disabled the backlash and was short on circular pockets... i played with it for a while and i had the x and y gibs just a bit too tight, so i was causing the backlash...

i set up an indicator and ran the x and y back and forth with the G commands and slowed the rapids down

on x i did 9 inch travel test and ended up .0003 short on the back to zero trip..so .0003 over 9 inches im guessing is not bad
on the y i did 5 inch and ended up .0002 on the back to zero trip...
on the z i did 9 inches and it ended up .0001 long believe it or not...

the screws are still new, im sure theyll get sloppy after a while..

i did the test 10 times each..i think i can live with that ...and now theres no jerky crazy movements when the axis change direction..

thanks for the advise ..
rick

[1hander]

i need to clarify that this happens during the running of a cutting program..

the program is running
time for next tool... T2
it goes all the way up to Z zero
and it sits there until i hit the cycle start.....then it goes to the TC position
load tool ..hit cycle start and continues

the part in utalics is the only thing that differs from the TC process you have in the previous post


if i just do manual tool changes then yes the process is as you have described

[DaveCVI]

last time this was due to "Safe Z" being on... check to see if it got turned back on.
If it is on, turn it off.

(Safe Z is a terrible mess of bad logic that had good intentions but usually just causes problems. When MSM was designed, safe Z was the one mach3 feature that Artsoft asked me not to include in MSM...)

Dave

[1hander]

i checked and safe Z is not turned on..